You can download the entire show or listen again online - fast forward to approx 33m25s.
Or I have clipped this for you and it is available as a .mp3 (5.8MB).
Rina and I agree on what we see as the most likely method of seeing educational reform in Germany, and that is pitching it where relevant (and timely), in fact thats how Educating Germany started 16 months ago.